Comments on: The beginning from the end

By: Clark Goble

Clark Goble — Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

That’s an interesting question. I wonder if it isn’t just the idea that “beginning from end” sounds better in English than “end from the beginning.” It really doesn’t seem like they mean that much different.

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In the context of the verses in both Isaiah and Abraham, the chosen expression emphasizes God’s foreknowledge of events. Knowing the end from the beginning requires foreknowledge. Knowing the beginning from the end does not.

Scott

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Two observations, in doing some searches online: (A) It appears that Mormons are far from alone in speaking of knowing “the beginning from the end.” (B) In context, those using the expression seem to want to say something about God’s omniscience or specifically foreknowledge.

Scott

By: Clark Goble

Clark Goble — Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I don’t quite see how “beginning from end” and “end from beginning” imply different degrees of foreknowledge. In both cases one has a knowledge of the end.

I suppose one could argue that the saying could be taken as not confusing beginnings with ends and in that case what comes from might imply some privileging of one over the other. But I’d be loath to say that *solely* on the basis of that ordering in the phrase.

I think I’m sticking with the idea that in English lists simply sound better in one order over an other. Presumably for this phrase that ordering is different than in Hebrew or Greek. If you repeat both forms of the saying quickly numerous times I think you’ll find that the normal English phrasing is superior to the way it is presented in the KJV.

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Clark,

For one to know the end from the beginning means that, in the beginning (Day Zero, Creation, whatever), one knows what will happen in the end (hundreds, thousands, millions of years later), even though it hasn’t happened yet. That’s the sense in Isaiah 46:10, in which God describes Himself as “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done….” It’s foreknowledge. (In this case it also involves causation, apparently. In the beginning, God *declares* what the end will be; He’s not just a passive “knower.”) That sense of foretelling is preserved in all (i.e., 16) translations available on the Bible Gateway web site. The Abraham 2:8 usage is pretty much the same.

I’m struggling to understand what meaning you’re finding in the expressions that would render them basically identical in meaning. Perhaps you could rephrase them so I can get a better sense of what you have in mind.

Scott

By: Jim

Jim — Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Though I think we often use the phrase, “know the beginning from the end” as if it means the same thing as “know the end from the beginning,” as Scott points out, it seems fairly clear that, taken literally, the two don’t mean the same thing. However, if we use both to mean the same thing, which I think is the point Scott is making about what he sees in his research, then both have to do with the foreknowledge of God. In that case, perhaps Clark’s explanation is the better one.

However, I’m a little leery of explanations that invoke the idea that one sounds better than the other in English. That may simply be the result of our familiarity with one.

By: Clark Goble

Clark Goble — Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Oh, OK, I see how you are reading it. I was taking “from” to mean “as distinct” or “as different.” You were taking “from” to imply the “when” of the knowing. I’m sure it will sound shocking, but I honestly have never read that in temporal terms. I always read both phrases as simply meaning that the beginning and end are different and shouldn’t be confused. (Something many do)