T&S: Cheesy and Faith Promoting

Here is a brief follow-up to the discussion below about the rampant “intellecualism” at T&S. A poster on one message board for self-identified “fringe Mormons” opined that “I found [Times & Seasons] sort of cheesy (as far as I read anyway). I get those little faith promoting stories daily through spam.”

You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people…

9 comments for “T&S: Cheesy and Faith Promoting

  1. tp
    January 15, 2004 at 3:43 pm


  2. January 15, 2004 at 3:58 pm

    What was interesting to me was the discussion of “true.” I find it rather ironic how people get upset at that word. The topic of “absolute truth” came up in the previous thread as well. I’d be a little cautious criticizing the concept of absolute truth. Sure I get rather uncomfortable with the Hegelian view which probably is what underlies some peoples concerns. (Whether they are aware of philosophical history or not) But let us not forget the meaning of absolute truth in the language of everyday common sense. I’d also point out one of my favorite talks by Pres. Kimball called Absolute Truth. (I forgot to mention that one in the thread on essays/talks)


    Now clearly how I understand absolute truth is a tad more complex philosophically and I’d probably disagree with how many others understand it. But I think that the notion of truth is important to Mormons. I can also understand how, in many ways, this becomes the problematic point in many discussions. i.e. those on extreme to the “right” of the mainstream church who claim truths that I don’t think are and claim truths known aren’t. (i.e. on topics like the history of the earth, various assertions on church history) Then those on the extreme of the “left” have their own assertions along those lines.

    To me it is a bit fascinating.

  3. January 15, 2004 at 4:00 pm

    I think Pres. Kimball’s comments apply directly to this silly concern about how those on both sides view our comments here.

    “Experience in one field does not automatically create expertise in another field. Expertise in religion comes from personal righteousness and from revelation. The Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith: “All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it.” (D&C 93:30.) A geologist who has discovered truths about the structure of the earth may be oblivious to the truths God has given us about the eternal nature of the family.

    If I can only make clear this one thing, it will give us a basis on which to build. Man cannot discover God or his ways by mere mental processes. One must be governed by the laws which control the realm into which he is delving. To become a plumber, one must study the laws which govern plumbing. He must know stresses and strains, temperatures at which pipes will freeze, laws which govern steam, hot water, expansion, contraction, and so forth. One might know much about plumbing and be a complete failure in training children or getting along with men. One might be the best of bookkeepers and yet not know anything of electricity. One might know much about buying and selling groceries and be absolutely ignorant of bridge building.

    One might be a great authority on the hydrogen bomb and yet know nothing of banking. One might be a noted theologian and yet be wholly untrained in watchmaking. One might be the author of the law of relativity and yet know nothing of the Creator who originated every law. I repeat, these are not matters of opinion. They are absolute truths. These truths are available to every soul.”


    “Having dropped all pride of your mental stature, having acknowledged before God your confusion, having subjected your egotism, and having surrendered yourself to the teaching of the Holy Spirit, you are ready to begin to learn. With preconceived religious notions stubbornly held, one is not teachable. The Lord has promised repeatedly that he will give you a knowledge of spiritual things when you have placed yourself in a proper frame of mind. He has counseled us to seek, ask, and search diligently.”

    I’d suggest Pres. Kimball’s comments apply to those on *both* extremes.

  4. Adam Greenwood
    January 15, 2004 at 4:14 pm

    Great excerpt. Very illuminating. I’d go farther than you, Clark, and argue that the comments apply to most of us. At least, they seem to apply to me, unless I’m one of those extremists we’ve been warned about . . .

  5. cooper
    January 15, 2004 at 4:23 pm

    Cheesy and faith-promoting. Hmmmm. I hadn’t noticed. I have spent a lot more time with my dictionary lately. One thing about education is that it allows you to use words to confound the masses.

  6. clark goble
    January 15, 2004 at 6:03 pm

    Sorry, didn’t mean to appear to be putting on the hypocritical cap. Clearly his talk applies to all of us. (That’s why I like it so much) But I think some people do get caught up with preconceptions and consciously *stop* searching.

    And, as I mentioned in the other thread, I don’t want to be pointing fingers.

  7. January 15, 2004 at 9:03 pm

    Cheesy . . . sounds like a great adjective to add to the rotating pool describing this site. Other food words you might throw into the mix: meaty, waffling, fruitful, nutty, and epicurean.

    A look at today’s “the most vegetarian, yet pro-dog, onymous Mormon group blog” suggests our list of adjectives grows thin. I look forward to future participation on this most cheesy, yet epicurean, onymous Mormon group blog.

  8. Adam Greenwood
    January 16, 2004 at 8:06 am

    Second Dave’s motion.

  9. January 16, 2004 at 6:49 pm

    Being from Wisconsin, I understand cheesy to be a form of high praise. Am I missing something?

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