I find it wonderfully ironic that the open minded Utah loathing expat was so presumptuous he automatically assumed they were from Utah, but he didn’t even listen to a word said and just judgmentally overwrote the statement in his mind to continue to imagine Utah was just so much better to escape From. Pot meet black kettle.

And this from a brother in the gospel. It’s pretty shameful. I used to tell people where I was from by including a list of places, which also included Utah and lied to myself that I rattled off the list to accurately reflect my background. Eventually, I was able to admit the truth to myself and started simply just claiming I’m from Utah because there’s frankly no place better to learn the gospel surrounded by good women and men who seek to follow the Lord’s will. Despite its imperfections, Utah laid a foundation for me that when I travel the world and lived in different countries my faith experiences are built in so much more of a profound way.

I had a first generation convert with 30 years of activity tell me when he’s visited Utah and sits in high priest meetings where rendering service to brothers and sisters in the hospital or in their homes is discussed, he’s filled with longing for that in his country.

“For all its faults…” is something often said about Utah, but even that is a junk qualifier to appease judgemental, close minded people.

Talking about leaving Utah in anyway other than to appreciate what you’ve left behind or to bring the light of godly service you’ve learned from the salt is the earth is nothing but words better left unspoken.

Take pride standing on the shoulders of those who made the desert bloom and reached outward to bless the world while they had nothing. Anyone who lives in Utah and lets the spirit of the gospel distill on their soul is all the better for it.

Because of this they are reported to be a happy lot.

It will be interesting to see if you find this to be true.

Rachel, I confess with my kids who’ve already been struggling in school that I fear seminary. I just don’t like how the church does early morning seminary even though I love the idea of seminary. The other danger I worry about but which has thankfully hasn’t been an issue yet is my kids being around Mormons who aren’t living the gospel. Where I grew up people who weren’t seriously Mormon just left. (Not saying that’s a good thing – just noting that in the less dense areas there’s little incentive to stay unless you really believe strongly) When I lived in Utah for a year as a kid (my dad was on Sabbatical) the kids swearing and drinking when only 14 or 15 were also in the teachers quorum leadership. There was that divide between church allegiance and actual belief/practice that was jarring. I still really worry about that when my kids will encounter it. In a certain way being the outsider made one need to figure out ones testimony in a fashion I’m just not sure occurs as much here. In a lot of ways what it means to be a Mormon simply is watered down when everyone is a Mormon. (Which is of course exaggerated – lots of people live around me who are non-Mormon)

Owen, I suspect that really varies from ward to ward. It seems like every ward has its own character – often determined by just two or three families within it. A single person can go a long way to making things great or bad. (And in saying that I’m implicitly calling myself to repentance to be more involved I suspect) Even the liberal/conservative thing varies a lot. I had a friend who moved to a ward while not downtown fairly close. In his ward the majority were liberal and most of the complaints I hear from liberals about unthinking conservative comments he brought up about liberal comments. And that was in Provo. So I both think Prove has a bit more political diversity than many think (unsurprising considering there’s colleges in the area) and I think liberals tend to behave the same way conservatives do when given the chance. i.e. this is a basic human failing.

Silver Rain, sorry I was using your comment to address two points. I muddled things up in my comment. I think two big problems are putting on appearances of everything being OK even when you are struggling. That’s pretty common and it’s definitely a problem I struggle with. (I come from a background of doing everything oneself and not asking for help – my wife is constantly dragging me out of those tendencies) I also think putting on a superficial niceness is a potential problem. (I bring that up as that seemed to be the popular topic when I was at BYU)

But I also have experienced what you note where people judge you in terms of the groups you belong to. Not just non-Mormons judging you as a Mormon based upon kind of unfair expectations. (Charges of hypocrisy or only wanting to associate with Mormons – lots of leaps of judgment when the actual details are almost always more complex) Being in Provo I just don’t encounter that much anymore, but back in my single days I noticed my non-Mormon friends making Mormonism into this toxic batter that never made much sense to me. I think both sides play that up too much when usually people are just people. i.e. never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity (or more often exhaustion and a busy schedule) People wanting to fit you into nice preconceived polarized places is pretty annoying. Again though I think it’s a common human failing. It just manifests differently elsewhere.

That doesn’t mean I don’t often need breaks.

We too have been called back to Utah, that which I never would have supposed.

Having lived 10 miles from La Jolla in a nice but cozy two bedroom apartment for the past 5 years, where our now 4 kids currently share the master bedroom, I really want to live close to downtown Provo, but we yearn for the typical suburban perks we have missed here in San Diego – a yard kids can be banished to, etc. –so I don’t know if downtown will work out.

It is a really difficult psychological sacrifice even though we love many things about Utah, if not inversions and other cultural quirks. But like others have said, the grass is always greener. Like Alma, we need to reel in our own desires sometimes and be content with what the Lord has allotted to us. I perceive Utah as a necessary challenge and blessing simultaneously, similar to the city of Zarahemla. Zarahemla had its own quirks and unexpected problems, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a necessary part of the Lord’s kingdom.

What can you say, when you pray in the temple and then read this:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/2.7?lang=eng#6

SilverRain (18). The problem with being a bridge is that everybody walks all over you. Sometimes you just have to withdraw and take a break. And then you get back to it, because a calling, even thankless and painful, is undeniable.

Stephenchardy (7-9). I can only speak to my absence, as I did in the OP. I will say that this forum is a more thoughtful community than, say, Facebook, but as such, it requires more time and care. It’s easy to let the fast and easy (and horribly polarizing) forms of social media suck up the time and energy I have for online conversation. And I was anxious about starting this up again. Already this conversation has allayed my fears, and I am happy to be back.
I am struggling to learn Dutch, but they offer translation into English. Many of our converts here are from different countries, and English is the common denominator language. But the language barrier offers me more time for reflection during the church services, for which I am intensely grateful. When I lose the thread of the comments, I can still meditate on the text of the lesson. I am keeping a Sunday journal in which I write my thoughts and reflections sparked by the talks or lessons. It’s a practice I’ve done off and on for years, but it is even more valuable to me now that I feel hampered in making comments in class. But that is the stuff blog posts are made of, so I think it will work out well.
We are fortunate to be a half hour’s walk away from the branch meeting location, which is ideal. The two block distance in Provo meant I could run home for something forgotten inbetween meetings, but I was also (rather uncharitably) annoyed at how many able-bodied people drove to church.
And surprisingly enough, our Provo home is in one of those more “needy” areas. We had mistakenly thought in the moving to Provo that we would be extraneous, but it turns out that stable, long-term families are few and far between. We were just as needed and used in the Provo 1st ward as we were in the Huntington Branch on Long Island. And that sense of being needed and the opportunity to render meaningful service strengthens bonds to the ward and its members as well as to the institutional church. I don’t know how we will serve in this Belgian branch: so far it’s just been having the missionaries over for dinner and playing the piano in sacrament meeting. But we haven’t been here long, so we’ll see.

Queno (2) Raising the kids in Provo has been interesting. In many ways, it is an idyllic small town. There are tree-lined streets with sidewalks, kids set up lemonade stands and ride their bikes in quiet streets. In the downtown area, we have a low concentration of families with school aged children, especially teens, so 3-4 wards combine their midweek youth activities to get a critical mass. On Sundays, there are often as many YW leaders as there are YW, so they get a lot of one-on-one attention and mentoring.

I wasn’t so pleased with seminary. Early morning did not work well for my oldest (the year before it seemed it would have been fine, but something switched in his teenaged body that year and it was awful). We didn’t want him to lose a class from his schedule for release time, and they refused to let us do online or homestudy.