Comments on: What is Zion and how do we get there? 31 Mormons weigh in: You’ll definitely find your Zion somewhere in here

By: James C. Olsen

James C. Olsen — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 17:23:07 +0000

Nice review Dave. And Tracy, great volume. Really enjoyed the diversity and the (at times quite provocative) dialogue that was my experience reading it.

By: Moss

Moss — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 16:10:46 +0000

Thanks for this review! I am looking forward to reading it. I love these models of faithful engagement.

By: Mars

Mars — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 01:17:35 +0000

Oh, fine except the popular-with-Babylon stuff always seems to have little snarky comments on the evils of male-only priesthood or how racist every Mormon is. Ragging on that stuff is justified.

By: Mars

Mars — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 00:29:16 +0000

Tracy – I never meant to cast doubt on your faithfulness. I just meant that one of the many ways to be a faithful Mormon involves focusing on hot topics within the secular world. In the same way a faithful Mormon could pontificate on the problem of overpopulation in the 1980s, maybe tying it in with stewardship, a faithful Mormon could today focus on identity politics and a certain set of allegedly marginalized voices. You would probably prefer to study Latino Mormonism (and it is interesting, though in my experience the major divides are still economic) than to study anti-vaxxers and herbalists, and that’s fine, but it gives the impression that in another twenty years you will be studying what is popular with the worldly then.

Oh, but I’d much rather talk about koans. Does anybody want to?

By: john f.

john f. — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 20:32:17 +0000

In my opinion, that parenthetical is just the standard smear attempt to paint those whom the author considers to be “liberal” Mormons as uncommitted to the cause and unrighteous. Of course it bears no relation to reality, in particular with regard to the specific authors of the book or their content. But, of course, anything short of the Benedict Option or worse is tantamount to trying to “be popular in Babylon” for these types.

By: Tracy M

Tracy M — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 20:27:36 +0000

(but if this really is a book of essays about how, actually, you can be popular in Babylon but hang with the cool Mormons, laserguy is absolutely justified)

What on earth gave anyone that idea? I’m one of the two editors who pulled this volume together (though I am not the copy-editor, and I share David’s consternation). This was a genuine attempt to show Mormonism is not a monolith, and even within faithful Mormonism, there are a myriad of personal ways to approach that faith. As editors, we specifically asked people with different life experiences to share of themselves, but the compilation is predominantly from faithful, regular Latter-day Saints, who likely represent people you share the pews with on Sunday. We hold callings, we serve our wards and our families, we have FHE and send our children to YM and YW.

By: john f.

john f. — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 20:08:23 +0000

Tracy, I have no idea what he’s talking about either but apparently he believes the book is filled with faith weakening material and is unhappy with Dave’s praise of it. It surprises me he thinks this without having read it but after 12 years of this Mormon blogging stuff, I suppose it shouldn’t.

By: Tracy M

Tracy M — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 20:02:38 +0000

Thank you for the review, David. Emily and I really appreciate your considerate and thoughtful feedback.

laserguy, I have no clue what you’re talking about.

By: Mars

Mars — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 19:46:56 +0000

Thank you laserguy. Our church is just too great and spacious and has too many tares. Stricter, straiter, narrower visions, please. Thanks so much. Much better now.

By: john f.

john f. — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 15:28:57 +0000

Thanks Dave — great to see you writing here!

By: sch

sch — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 13:22:42 +0000

Thank you laserguy. Our church is just too diverse and has too many members. Fewer, smaller, narrower visions, please. Thanks so much. Much better now.

By: Mars

Mars — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 06:26:29 +0000

Give them a break, laserguy. I don’t think they’re actively trying to minimize faith, they just haven’t figured out secular individualism is a meme.

Kidding, kidding; I’m only here to talk about concrete paradoxes. “I have to learn to make room for those whose approach is different from mine — for those whose brains and hearts crave the concrete and defined where mine feasts on paradox and koan.” I really like that, this dichotomy of paradox-thinkers and concrete thinkers. Of course she’s implying that concrete thinkers should have room for koan thinkers (or does she think they can? I don’t have ten bucks for a book of essays especially after getting burned by Steven L. Peck), but I would argue that complete discipleship ought to have room for both, and love for both.

The concrete command that we should have room for paradoxical and non-paradoxical beliefs is paradoxical, and concrete. I love that both ways.

(but if this really is a book of essays about how, actually, you can be popular in Babylon but hang with the cool Mormons, laserguy is absolutely justified)

By: laserguy

laserguy — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 03:43:18 +0000

Why is a veritable treasure trove of Mormons in name only… Wonderful! I was just wondering how I could minimize my faith this conference weekend. Thanks for the wonderful suggestions.