Comments on: Church and Hockey https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Murray https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541793 Sun, 18 Jun 2017 13:35:20 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541793 Carole, my wife’s sister married a non-member who is a sports junkie. Their 2 kids have both served missions and one has married in the Temple. Has not always been easy, but so far, so good! So much of what has been said by other commentators, and yourself, is very true in their situation. Blessings to you!

]]>
By: Carole Turley Voulgaris https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541782 Sat, 17 Jun 2017 01:01:50 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541782 Bob Bell: One could argue that every married couple is too early in their marriage to know how things will play out fifteen to twenty years in the future. Teenagers, retirement, career changes, illness/disability, and any number of other things have the potential to change the dynamic of a relationship. Still, I think our experience over the first five years of our relationship is at least somewhat informative with regards to how the next twenty years is likely to go. I’m optimistic.

I can’t speak to mixed-faith marriages in general. I can really only reflect on my own experience.

]]>
By: Bob Bell https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541769 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 18:08:09 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541769 Hi. I am of the view that you are to early in your marriage/childrearing to know how this will go when your children get older and you and your spouse go thru the roller coaster of life. The sports analogy is nowhere close to how things go with teenagers.

Marriage is hard enough without trying to navigate raising teenagers with parents who are both LDS. Its even harder in a mixed faith marriage.

Teenagers have a way of sensing the cracks and exploiting them.

]]>
By: Carole Turley Voulgaris https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541767 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 17:42:19 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541767 @Jader3rd: The direction of the time zone difference helps a lot if you’re following an east-coast team from the west coast. Easier to watch a 7pm EST game starting at 4pm on the west coast than a 7pm PST game starting at 10pm on the east coast. If he can’t leave work early, he can start it from the beginning when he gets home – by skipping the commercials and period breaks, he’ll usually catch up to the live stream well before the end of the game. We’ll sometimes drive up to Vancouver when the Islanders are playing the Canucks, and the top prospect to have signed with the Islanders in recent years currently plays for the Seattle Thunderbirds (Juniors), so it’s cool to catch a Thunderbirds game in Renton.

It would be nice to have an NHL team here locally, but we’re here temporarily, so no need to bring one here on our account. Interesting point about the role of traffic studies in locating stadia. There were traffic engineering issues with renovating Nassau Coliseum, where the Islanders had historically played in Long Island, so that was ultimately part of what forced the team to move to Brooklyn, to the chagrin of many, if not most, fans. If he did hold a grudge against the profession, that would be the source, rather than Seattle’s failure to bring in a team.

]]>
By: Dave B. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541765 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 16:39:57 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541765 I’m sensing the post isn’t really about hockey.

Carole, it’s impressive how successfully you have both navigated the different levels of interest in church and in hockey. This seems like a rare accomplishment, given how (as noted by some commenters) LDS culture and practice tend to make this difficult for both halves of a mixed-faith marriage. You ought to be celebrated for making this work so well, but you probably get quizzical looks, at best, when you explain the details to ward or family members. Thanks for sharing an enlightening and personal post.

]]>
By: jader3rd https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541760 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 15:33:14 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541760 The push in Seattle to get a new NBA\NHL stadium in the Sodo district was denied by the city council recently (April I think). The reason that I heard was the reason why the deciding vote was cast the way it was, was due to the fact that the streets in Sodo couldn’t support another stadium, and the existing port traffic. This information would have been provided to the city council by transportation engineers. So given that transportation engineers shot down the opportunity for the NHL coming to Seattle, does your husband have an unforgivable grudge against all transportation engineers?

]]>
By: Northern Virginia https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541759 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:49:14 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541759 Anyone care to wager whether there’s sports in the celestial kingdom?

Second, Carole, thank you for your post. In my experience, your experience is very, very common for member-nonmember marriages, and I think ward members often do a poor job of respecting boundaries when it comes to nonmember spouses. You see, know, and love a wonderful, loving, and supportive man with whom you share your life. Too often, we see marriages like yours, and all we can see is a poor faithful (or not) sister locked into a hopeless marriage with an unworthy Gentile (so to speak) or (slightly more upbeat but still misguided) an easy missionary opportunity that only needs lots and lots of pressure, hints, coaxing, and even berating to produce fruit.

I have good friends in a situation similar to yours. The husband fully supports the wife attending church and having their children blessed, baptized, and raised in the Church (and he himself has regularly attended), but he has always clearly and consistently stated that he is not interested in joining. Despite that, he’s been pressured many times by various ward members, and the wife was frankly told by another sister that she simply wasn’t praying hard enough or else her husband would have joined long ago.

Unfortunately, our missionary mindset (and depending on how you want to read it, our doctrine) makes us very pushy with people like your husband who support but don’t want to join.

]]>
By: jader3rd https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541757 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 05:54:05 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541757 Given that you’re in the NHL desert of Seattle, and three time zones away from New York, how does that affect his consumption of Hockey?

]]>
By: Carole Turley Voulgaris https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541754 Fri, 16 Jun 2017 00:58:27 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541754 @Murray: That’s good general advice. I’m a big believer in communication within a marriage. This is something he and I have discussed at some length over a period of years (with greater frequency since I’ve been pregnant), so I’m pretty confident that I understand his thinking — perhaps I shouldn’t have hedged with “I think,” but even after all that discussion, it would feel presumptuous for me to confidently express another person’s thoughts and feelings. Also, he read the OP before I posted it, and his only quibble is that he would like to believe that my interest in hockey is greater than I’ve suggested.

That said, in all of our discussions, we’ve both acknowledged that our feelings about our respective religions and how to incorporate them into how we raise our daughter may change after she is born. So I’m sure this is something we’ll be discussing on an on-going basis over the next 20 years or so.

]]>
By: Murray https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541751 Thu, 15 Jun 2017 21:48:23 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541751 Wonderful story! “And I think my husband feels the same way about the idea of raising our daughter in the Mormon faith”. I think it’s important that you confirm that. He may not be as supportive as you hope. I hope for your daughters sake he is though.

]]>
By: Mark B. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541750 Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:48:36 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541750 When the Islanders moved into Brooklyn last year, I decided to buy season tickets, even though my conversion to hockey was relatively recent (somehow my wife’s Canadian blood did not bring with it a love for the sport) and I had no particular interest in the Islanders themselves. But, the arena was three subway stops away and surely, I thought, I could sell enough tickets at a premium that I could go to five or ten games for free, and maybe come out ahead financially.

Instead I took a huge financial bath.

But hockey fandom as religion is an apt analogy. When I showed up for the first game, I realized that I didn’t know the language, the chants, the appropriate times to stand, to sit, to raise my arms, fingers pointing upward, to shout vulgarities at the opposing goalie, etc., etc. There’s a unique society inside that arena, just waiting for an anthropologist to play like Margaret Mead and study them.

As to the rules, just figure out how to stay onside and how not to ice the puck, and everything else is natural. Good luck!

]]>
By: Frank Pellett https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541748 Thu, 15 Jun 2017 19:48:40 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541748 I’ve always hoped at least one of my children will be 5th generation Chicago Cubs fans. It wasn’t too much of a risk marrying a Boston Red Sox fan, as it seem(ed) unlikely they’d meet in the World Series. I don’t think I’d turn anyone out for being a fan of some other team, though I know that the Cubs are the “only true team”, not even if they became St Louis Cardinals fans.

If they married a Cards fan, though, I might make them sleep in separate rooms, just so they know my disapproval.

]]>
By: James C. Olsen https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541747 Thu, 15 Jun 2017 19:33:41 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541747 Wonderful post. And while this set the overall tone, I’d love to hear more of your experience, more of the particulars and tensions and yet-to-be-resolved issues. Hopefully I’m not being voyeuristic, but I hope you’ll post more on what is obviously an increasingly important topic.

I think about this sort of thing a lot. Our overall norms and ways of organizing ourselves and seeking (collective vs. individual) goods have shifted dramatically in the last few centuries. It’s a confusing, difficult, complex thing to try and think through. How much is about agency and how much about cultural imprinting? I wholeheartedly support your comment that: ” at the end of the day, we’re all just doing our best and relying on God’s mercy to make up the difference.” I think we all need to have a bit more humility-inspired mercy. That said, whether it’s a result of agency or imprinting, I’m convinced of my own obligations to bracket my gut, or at least take it as one among other data points, as I try to struggle through my accountability and which items are most weighty.

]]>
By: Marc Bohn https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/church-and-hockey/#comment-541746 Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:54:50 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36754#comment-541746 I absolutely loved this paragraph:

We’re expecting our first child in the next couple of weeks, which raises a super important question: Will we raise our daughter to be a hockey fan? Yes, I really want to. I don’t necessarily feel a strong need for hockey in my own life, but I recognize that it’s added something special and important to my husband’s life, and I’d love to see him pass that on to our daughter. I also love the idea of my daughter and her dad watching hockey together and cheering for the same team – I think that would be a great way for them to build an awesome father-daughter relationship. Of course, she’ll ultimately need to make her own decisions, and maybe she’ll decide she’s not into hockey (and my husband would naturally be more disappointed than I would be if that were the case). But if she shows any interest at all, I think we’ll both really encourage that interest. And I think my husband feels the same way about the idea of raising our daughter in the Mormon faith.

]]>