Comments on: Faithful vs. Secular Murmuring – Reading Nephi – 16:17-25 https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/reading-nephi-1617-25/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Terry H https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/reading-nephi-1617-25/#comment-543104 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 23:05:44 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37132#comment-543104 Jerry,

I feel the same about Joseph’s use of the word “Christ”. If I ever got to see the gold plates themselves, that’s the first thing (and only if I was limited to one) I would look for–what was the character or word used. I think that the use of “Christ” is in the same category as you describe with “steel”. I like the way Brant Gardner handles it in Second Witness.

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By: Adam Selene https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/reading-nephi-1617-25/#comment-543103 Fri, 01 Dec 2017 21:53:23 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37132#comment-543103 I have a book on archery that mentions the use of steel bows (no date given as when they were used), and notes that they didn’t see much use because they suffered from metal fatigue and tended to break. Also, the fact that Nephi’s brothers’ bows had lost their spring may be because of the materials of the bows and change in climate (e.g., bows made of yew lose strength in warmer climes), but may also be another insight into their personality, possibly indicating that they were too lazy to unstring their bows when not in use.

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By: Jerry Schmidt https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/reading-nephi-1617-25/#comment-542985 Mon, 06 Nov 2017 20:58:31 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37132#comment-542985 Clark Goble, you don’t need my validation but this was the direction my personal research pointed me, although I appreciate the details on the metallic composite bows including the Indus region textual reference. Also, thanks for the relationship between bow structure and arrow structure, I hadn’t encountered that knowledge yet.

I don’t trip over the reference to steel in the B of M, mostly because I suspect we’re getting a filter of the source term through young Joseph Smith’s mind, and steel was the closest analog his vocabulary made available. Or I could be mistaken…

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/reading-nephi-1617-25/#comment-542984 Mon, 06 Nov 2017 16:20:10 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37132#comment-542984 It’s worth noting that Nephi’s steel bow is a bit of a mystery. The phrase appears in the OT as well. “Steel” in this case is a KJV word issue. The underlying word means bronze, not steel. But no one is quite sure what steel bows actually were since no one would want to make a bow from bronze. Aron Pinker has the main analysis in “On the meaning of ??? ?????.” Pinker argues that the best interpretation is “snake like bow” or a double convex bow. Such bows are attested historically. The problem with this is that the Book of Mormon doesn’t merely use “steel bow” but has Nephi saying, “it was made of fine steel.” So Pinker’s speculative reconstruction can’t work for us.

Nibley long ago speculated that Nephi was making a composite bow. It’s not clear why he’d do that since composite bow’s main advantage was for horse based troops. They are smaller than regular bows but don’t have much more strength. The classic problem in the ancient world was problems with glue delaminating which may explain why it broke. Composite bows were common in the Palestine-Syria region from around the 14th century onward. Typically they were made from alternating layers of bone and wood with animal tendons providing stress. Metal can also be used. It was used in Asia for instance. So far as I know there’s no extant evidence of a metal composite bow in the Palestine region. However it is quite possible they were used. It’s also possible that metal was used just for the handle riser (the middle of the bow where the arrow would rest) although typically that’s dates to the Hun conquest around the 4th century. On the other hand metal composite bows were known in India in the relevant era. The Visnudharmottara mentions metal composite bows, although that’s typically dated to well after Nephi (~3-4 century AD although parts date much earlier)

The better explanation for Nephi is that the bow was a more traditional composite bow or even Pinker’s convex bow but that the arrowheads were bronze. These are well attested during the relevant time frame. In this interpretation Nephi is simply talking of bows and arrows as a single item. Note that the arrows had to be made custom for the bow in question. The length obviously depends upon the size of the bow. However the stiffness of the arrow has to match the pull strength of the bow in various ways. Presumably Nephi’s newly made bow wasn’t as strong as his old bow requiring new arrows.

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By: Jerry Schmidt https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/reading-nephi-1617-25/#comment-542983 Mon, 06 Nov 2017 11:54:52 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37132#comment-542983 For some odd reason as I was reading this post I was thinking about Roald Dahl’s “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.” In this narrative, Charlie’s family is shown as actually starving before Charlie fatefully finds the money that allows him to buy the chocolate bar with the Golden ticket to the Wonka chocolate factory. The ticket itself, however, does not keep his family from starving; it gives him access to the chocolate factory and a series of character tests.

Only after Charlie, through no extraordinary effort on his own, survives the character tests does he qualify for the reward that is implied will rescue him and his family from hunger. Charlie’s ability to survive is not due to any particular virtus on his part, but rather his consistent willingness to follow the chocolatier wherever the chocolatier leads, and a shared vision of chocolate and candymaking.

I realize that I am drawing parallels between scripture and a book written by a man of no particular religious leaning that I’m aware of. If I looked at what I just wrote through different eyes I would likely dismiss it. But my own lived experience has found me and my family in economic hardship. My family has needed food assistance from the LDS church to temporarily see us through. Our suffering is relative, even then, to that of Lehi’s clan particularly at this time in Nephi’s narrative.

But I could understand how Lehi, at this point, would feel “unmanned” by circumstance, and in his love for his family question his previous faith decisions that had lead them to this situation. I am no Lehi, but I think I get it. And I can see how a young man, still open to the magic realism that has been the clan’s shared experience on this journey, might act boldly enough in the face of misfortune, expecting at least one more element to be in his favor, would just keep trying.

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